It’s easy to forget sometimes that each of us is at our own point on the path of learning.
While those of us who live/breathe Internet Marketing have come to view certain truths as self-evident and obvious, many people are just starting out, coming to grips with the basics and uncertain about what information they can trust.
We all start there.
And when you’re just starting out it’s tough to separate the scoundrels from the sages.
I’m not one to claim that I’ve “seen it all” in SEO in my 4-5 years of involvement, but I’ve certainly seen my share of scams. And it amazes me: they don’t seem to be going away. Some of the oldest and most ridiculous scams are still being run.
And if they’re still selling that means that there are business owners out there who don’t know better.
It’s sad, but there are those who prey on the uninformed. This isn’t unique to SEO. It’s an unfortunate fact of life in the business world. Honesty isn’t a prerequisite to charge for services.
Here are 8 SEO scams that just don’t seem to go away and an explanation of why each one is simply not worth your money.
1) “X Top Ten Rankings Guaranteed!”
I had the unfortunate experience of working for a company that offered “50 page one Google rankings guaranteed” as an incentive for uncertain prospects. Not to say hard work wasn’t being done – it was. But guaranteed rankings are meaningless.
Why this is a scam
First off, nobody can guarantee a ranking. Secondly, your website already has hundreds of page one rankings. Here’s an example: search for “mike tekula unstuck.” I guarantee you UnstuckDigital.com (my website) is the first result. Shouldn’t it be?
Go through your own website and put together a list of similar ridiculously obscure keywords. Search for them. You’re going to find lots of page one rankings.
Rankings have never been the goal. They’re merely a means to an end. The end is leads/sales/whatever your goal is. Qualified traffic that converts. A ranking by itself means nothing if it refers no qualified traffic.
2) “We’ll submit your website to thousands of search engines!”
Really? Thanks. Thousands of search engines sure is a lot. It would probably take me weeks to do all that myself.
Why this is a scam
How many search engines have you heard of?
How many do you use on a regular basis (at least once per week)?
You’re not unique in this. Most people use Google – about 70% of people in this country as a matter of fact. Something like 20% use Yahoo!. 8% use Microsoft Live. Ask.com, Dogpile, Metacrawler, etc – the handful of remaining search engines collectively get about 2% of search traffic.
There are not thousands of search engines to worry about. There are three. And if you’re really pressed for resources, there is one – Google.
The worst part about scams like this: those “search engines” they’re submitting your website to? They’re mainly SPAM centers. So not only is your money being ill-spent on this “service,” but you’ll be inundated with SPAM emails until the cows come home.
3) “500 Directory Links for $49.95″
Link building is important – links are the most powerful way to outrank your competitors. Link building is also really, really hard.
So when someone comes along offering you 500 links for $50 you might think it’s a good idea – that’s just $.10 per link!
Why this is a scam
Ask yourself: if you were Google would you want it to be this easy for websites to achieve top rankings? Just drop $50 here or there on a few links and bamn, you’re at the top?
Of course not.
There’s a general rule of thumb here: the cheaper the link, the less powerful.
Sometimes, when you’re clever and create great stuff, links come on their own – and these can be very powerful. But the kind of links you’re going to get for nothing more than a $50 upfront investment are worthless.
4) “1st Page of Google in 48 Hours!”
This scam preys on those in a hurry – they’ve got a website, the sales are not coming in and they’re hoping to hire an “expert” to get them visible in search engines quickly.
Why this is a scam
Anybody (yes, anybody) can get to the 1st page of Google almost instantaneously, and you don’t need to hire someone to do it.
- Step 1: Sign up for AdWords
- Step 2: Pick a keyword, any keyword
- Step 3: Pay
You can pay for top placements all you want – that will make Google very happy. Consistent and qualified traffic streams and a positive ROI are another story.
5) “We have an inside man at Google”
Wouldn’t it be cool if your consultant had a “man on the inside?” You’d get your SEO advice straight from the horse’s mouth!
Why this is a scam
You really think Google employees are selling state SEO secrets to John and Jane Q. Consultant? Remember the Rosenbergs?
Google’s ranking algorithm reportedly contains 200+ variables. In short: they could hand the formula to just about anybody – we wouldn’t be able to “crack the code” and start ranking well. Too many of the variables are hard, if not impossible, to game.
6) “Our methods are a trade secret – we can’t tell you what we’re doing”
Of course some things are proprietary – you can’t expect companies and consultants to give up all their goodies.
Why this is a scam
The minute you’re paying someone for a fuzzy list of deliverables you’ve entered the twilight zone of the B2B services universe – where the basic trade of money for actual work unravels.
I wouldn’t expect your SEO to tell you everything about their research methods, tools and software, but then your mechanic doesn’t turn over a work order with one line item titled, “secret car repair service” and expect you to pay, does he?
7) “We’ve studied and cracked Google’s algorithm”
Similar to #5, this one is equally absurd. It sounds very nerdy and scientific – and we all like the idea of being in on top secret info, especially when it makes us money.
Why this is a scam
Not even Google employees have “cracked” the algorithm. It’s handled by a team of engineers and is updated sometimes several times per week. In other words, a minute after someone “cracked” the algorithm their information would be outdated.
8) “We just need to install this link directory on your website”
Sounds simple enough – and they’ll usually offer to do it for a low upfront price.
Why this is a scam
Your SEO consultant/company is basically telling you that their link building strategy amounts to nothing more than a thin link exchange program. Run screaming. They might not be knowingly scamming their clients, but they don’t know SEO.
This method was already stale and fruitless when people were still listening to Creed (isn’t it nice to let the past die?).
{ 69 comments… read them below or add one }
#1 is the hardest one to compete against. Of course clients want a guarantee that what they’re spending their money on is going to get them something valuable, and they think ranking first on google is the thing to have. We really have to educate our clients that what we’re aiming for is an improvement in rankings, and more importantly an improvement in traffic & conversions.
Also, if they’re guaranteeing #1 in Google for anything relatively competitive? They’re probably doing #8 to get there…
It’s tough for sure – people like guarantees. But when I think about guaranteed rankings I think about the quote from Tommy Boy,
One of the first things I teach new prospective clients is that rankings have zero value – only traffic (and qualified, converting traffic) has value. Once you explain it using simple examples people grasp the concept – the problem is that you have to get to them before the scammers do.
I like to think we’re getting closer to being able to calculate the true ROI of SEO – Enquisite Campaign sure looks interesting in that regard. I’m planning to give it a trial run…
Mike,
What do you know about outrank.com? Is that a scam, too?
Not looking to buy anything, just assessing the company as a potential employer…
@J S – It’s hard to evaluate a company’s practices from the outside looking in, but their “Front Page Position within 60 Days” guarantee raises all the wrong alarms.
I would never say arbitrarily that they don’t do legitimate work, but those guarantees, in my experience, are thin and low-value at best.
And what’s wrong with a business BUYING PAGE ONE? Not anyone can do SEM management properly. It’s obvious you are clueless about PAGE ONE SEM.
Try to buy a MAJOR KEYWORD, if the seo of the page is off or if the ads CTR and the QS are off, you end up paying a fortune for PPC.
PPC and SEM management is a SKILL, that’s why the top IT positions in many corporate IT centers are the VP’s of SEM.
Anyone can BUY PAGE ONE?
Spoken like an ignoramus, I have a ton of clients, they thought like you, they could BUY PAGE ONE, after they tried and had 10 buck PPC rates, they HIRED ME to manage their PAGE ONE SEM, then they get real SEO work and bingo, before you know it, THEY ARE TOP OF PAGE ONE once I get involved.
If you KNOW WHAT YOU’RE DOING, you get PAGE ONE pretty quickly, sure SEM is instant, but REAL SEO doesn’t take months like the novices say.
THE PROS DO IT FAST
I pop PAGE ONE for clients usually in a week with PURE SEO SKILLS
And what I do, is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS nor my clients business
I show them PAGE ONE SERPS one after another
Tons of keywords where ONLY DIRECTORIES ARE PAGE ONE
Yet, the only business clients on the serp’s ARE MINE
How come?
I KNOW WHAT I’M DOING
I wrote one of the first books on SEO over 10 years ago
Wow, you’ve been doing SEO for 4 to 5 years…
hahaha
yeah, so what
your information shows how little you know
scams are scams
no one buys the submit to X thousands SE’s, and no one buys the 500 backlinks for 10 cents a link garbage
that’s not SEO
it’s SCAMS
Real SEO Guru’s walk into a client, they go to google, they show MAJOR KEYWORDS IN BUSINESS
Words with millions of pages in serps
BINGO their work is PAGE ONE
When you have that in your arsenal, the client shuts up and whips out the check book
SEO IS RESULTS DRIVEN
You have PAGE ONE SERPS for major terms, you have real business clients, you are a REAL SEO GURU
BOTTOM LINE IS ALL BUSINESSES WANT
You show them PAGE ONE for major words and they hire you
BUSINESSES PAY A LOT FOR REAL SEO RESULTS
All this garbage I see on sites like this is well, GARBAGE
show your client list
show your serp’s
that’s who you are
SEO is real simple
you either deliver PAGE ONE or you don’t
if you do for REAL BUSINESS WORDS, then you have a ton of clients
you get referrals all the time
you drive a ferrari or lambo
you make a ton of cash
YOU THE MAN
Life of a SEO GURU…
Dear Readers,
I think we can all learn something important from the above comment. When you’ve been drinking heavily it’s a good idea to stay away from the keyboard.
Best,
Mike
What an idiot. Unreal. Can I get the last minute of my life back from reading that comment? Dear Lord, talk about a complete schmuck. heh. Mike…How do you deal with morons like SEO GURU?
Seriously…
Anyone that puts the words: “GURU” or “EXPERT” in their moniker…is lying through their teeth. How can anyone be an GURU or EXPERT if everything around them is constantly moving and changing? Answer is: You can’t.
You can be a avid student of Social Media or SEO/SEM, but once you claim that you are the “OG” Original GURU, then you have jumped the shark of Internet Marketing straight to a PPC snake oil salesman as hair tonic for bald men…
I say ban his IP address and never let him back in. heh.
ADB
I appreciate the sentiment, and believe me I considered blocking the comment and commenter. But I want to let people say their piece, however misguided I may find them.
It also makes for pretty good entertainment. ;)
I want to know why our resident SEO GURU couldn’t be bothered to give his real name or provide any proof that he’s written a book 10 years ago. Probably because, frankly, he’s full of crap.
His website also has a total of 9 inbound links according to Yahoo! – and all from domains he owns. Clearly this guy has talent and experience.
Edit: Oh, my mistake – I was looking at the wrong version of his website. With so many mirror sites at various domains it got confusing.
Why of course he has talent and experience, he *is* a guru after all!
Yes, and that is no title to take lightly. Gurus have to traverse the roughest paths, climb the highest peaks and slay beasts of unmentionable fury before they are granted the title by the SEO gods.
Thank you so much for the info…..I only wish i saw this site before i purchased services from an SEO company…Oh and on top of that i wish i heeded the suggestions!!!! Sometimes some sales people can really be convincing….when your hungry for the gold, that mirage they create can suck you in if you let em…thats why its really important for folks to be a little educated…..here’s a site i feel can be effective that also shares some tips: http://www.seoincscam.com another site that i put together for conumer protection is http://www.seoscaminc.com
Hi Ari, thanks for the kind words. It’s angering to come across people who’ve been wronged or feel that way such as yourself – but unfortunately not uncommon.
You’re spot-on – all we can do is promote education, and I applaud you for sharing your story in hopes that others might avoid similar woes.
Outrank.com is not a scam. They gurantee they can get your site on the first page or stop billing you until they do (think of it as a set up fee for the SEO work).
Took them about 40 days to get me there, I’ve seen a noticeable increase in business since I implemented this solution.
I certainly wouldn’t call any businesses’s offerings a “scam” without ample evidence to support that kind of claim.
If Outrank.com truly does work for “free” until they’ve secured the listings they’ve promised then I certainly wouldn’t call that a scam.
However, whether a “first page” position directly equates to value for your business is another question – I personally don’t recommend correlating rankings to success and prefer to tie it all back to verifiable ROI metrics (such as sales or conversions) whenever possible.
I used Outrank.com, They charged $595 upfront to get you on page one within 60 days. I later found other companies doing the same for half or less with no upfront, (don’t know if they are any good). Cancelled my contract, tried to get out but they charged my card again, (30 day written notice required) I think we have received a total of 2 leads for all this trouble. Oh, and when I tried to discuss it with them they got hostile and hung up the phone. This is a real classless operation that you should stay for away from.
While I can’t comment on Outrank.com and their services, my basic question is this: “page one” for what? What keyword(s)?
And the follow-up question: does that “page one” placement actually amount to anything?
I once worked with a company who guaranteed 100 “page one” listings in six months.
Guess what: that’s incredibly easy to achieve. I detailed the process, and why it was a scam, in this SEOmoz post.
The point: rankings have zero value unless they send you targeted traffic – measuring that is where you should be focused.
Mike:
Did you ever try Enquisite Campaign, and if so, how did it fare?
I have not had the chance to work with Enquisite Campaign as of yet – but I was intrigued when I first learned about it. I’ve been impressed by what Enquisite has done in the past – so I would certainly consider Campaign worth a try.
Nice list. My favorite ais the “connections to insiders one”. Seriously. A billion dollar company that makes ALL of it’s revenue on adverting and is super paranoid about perceptions of manipulation or unfairness is going to let its employees push your website up a notch or two. Hah. Funny.
I have my own similar list as well. Scum SEO companies are one of my major pet peeves. Her’s the link:
http://www.claytowne.com/seo_scam.htm
There are very few things in my life that I have wasted time on and I believe this blog is one of them. Mike, you stated numerous things about what constitutes a scam and ways around it for a business owner to present his business on the front page. Adwords and PPC campaigns only place the domains into the sponsored links which studies show are less likely to work because the common american individual is hesitant of that area.
http://www.newmediacampaigns.com/page/seo-vs-ppc—which-provides-you-the-better-value
Furthermore, you went on about your number one scam. Your name plus unstuck is going to generate you on the front page and thats what you bet. I bet your SEO techniques cant get this blog on the front page of “stupid blog” because of the traffic to that keyword phrase. I am sure you can get it to the front of “another stupid blog” cause the traffic is much lower.
You made some valid points however I also think that you very little or no knowledge in areas you express opinions towards or about. I would recommend you get your feet wet before you decide to have a blog site about the way water feels on your toes. Your blog about a company and a product line that generates billions of dollars to small business owners every year requires an intelligent individual to counter it. Do your homework before you stand in front of the class.
As for the time I have invested in this blog and reading your opinions, I will chalk it up to a complete waste of time on behalf of all parties involved.
Steve, I was going to craft a response until I realized A) you didn’t read my post, B) you are insane or C) both.
Instead, I give you this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto
My vote is for insane.
My guess is that Steve Schaeffer works for outrank.com and got his knickers in a knot about the comments.
And judging from his verbiage and tone, it doesn’t reflect well on outrank.
Or he’s a competitor of outrank trying to make them sound like idiots.
You’re probably right on the first point. This post ranks for “Outrank.com scam” (which brings over 100 visitors a month here currently).
Of course, I personally make no attack on Outrank.com whatsoever – I have no experience with them and therefore no basis on which to judge their services.
Spoken like the son of a diplomat…what did you say your Dad did for a living?
He’s a commercial fisherman, actually…but he’s quite careful with his language.
I own a heating and airconditioning company. What SEO company is worth the investment? I could always use more business but my efforts at finding one that actually does what they say is frustrating.
Hey DJ. I can say without hesitation that if you have available budget, the chances are excellent that you could get far more business dollars than the dollars spent if you approach the web with a good plan.
I’m not taking any new clients right now, so count me out. But allow me to recommend considering Mike, the author of this blog.
Above and beyond his SEO skill sets, he has proven himself a man of character so I’d bet you $100 that he would give you the straight scoop. If he can help he’ll tell you. And if you’d be better off in another direction, he’ll tell you that too.
Good luck.
There are plenty worth the investment – SEOmoz, a great source of SEO info, has a page where they list SEO consultants they recommend. Any one of the consultants/companies on this page will tell it to you straight: http://www.seomoz.org/marketplace/companies/recommended
From an initial look I see some issues with your site:
Edit: Fixing the above should only cost you a few hundred bucks – unless there’s some serious limitation with your website platform (but it looks like straight HTML to me – easy to edit)
If you fix the above I’d expect you to see a boost in relevant search traffic – but because you don’t have a ton of inbound links (just around two dozen “juice passing” links) that’s going to hold you down.
A general rule of thumb with hiring an SEO agency or consultant, especially if they’re going to help you build inbound links, is that very rarely does a “set and forget” service work – where you just send them $xxx per month and expect the links and traffic to start coming in. In my experience these types of agencies almost never deliver value.
The best attitude to go into it with is ready to learn. The SEOmoz Beginner’s Guide to SEO is a good place to start. If you come to the table with at least some solid basic knowledge on how SEO works it’s less likely someone can take you for a ride.
Great post. I was looking for the perfect explanation for a client who was just approached about one of these schemes. Thanks for writing this in plain English.
Thanks Peggy, that is excellent.
Ha ha — LOL!!! :) Great bunch of comments and debate for the chronically geek, anti-scam SEO crowd — of which I’m a card carrying member.
You nailed many of the SEO scams still prevalent on the Web today, thank you very much. However, the first one’s sort of a gray area, that is, I think the particular guarantee and the SEO service that offers it should be evaluated on an individual basis.
Not all SEO guarantees are inherently “bad.”
Given that the garden variety of business/website owners know beans about SEO, personally, I think a performance guarantee can afford the client protections from rip-offs that, unfortunately, saturate the SEO industry at large.
If a website owner accepts at face value the statement, “no one can guarantee rankings”, they invite an unscrupulous SEO company to take their money and give nothing in return. Playing the “Google card” has probably resulted in countless millions being taken from naive business owners.
I can appreciate your sentiments about SEO not being a means to an end. Search engine rankings should result in appreciable traffic gains and highly competitive keyword terms specific to the client’s business.
Still, regardless of traffic gains, it’s nearly impossible to assure a client, or establish an SEO business model around conversions. Pre-qualified traffic can potentially result in more sales, yet there are far too many variables at play to warrant conversions from SEO efforts/success.
Take my industry focus for instance (dentistry); in a few months I can increase the dentist’s traffic 5-10 fold, though I still can’t assure them that accomplishment will result in 5-10 times the patients they were already getting (if any).
Other factors beyond my control are 1) design issues with their website, 2) the way their front desk answers the phone, 3) staff not addressing email appointment requests, etc. Even if I built the site, the latter two issues could still inhibit conversions overall.
In any event, thanks for listening and your insight.
John Barremore, SEO
Crime-free Houston, TX
Thanks John.
I agree that not all guarantees are bogus – if an SEO consultant/company is willing to go out on a limb and share risk that might even be a great sign. But in my experience I’ve yet to come across a SEO company selling “guaranteed rankings” that wasn’t a scam. Most of the good companies know better – or they go with a performance-based offering if they’re looking to assuage client fears.
You’re right that the conversion process is out of our hands in a big way – especially once the prospect moves from the website to picking up the phone. With that I have no argument. But tracking form submissions and phone calls gets you closer.
Mike,
Are you not saying, then, that any SEO outfit that provides their clients with a guarantee for rankings is, in your estimation, a scam?
I ask, would you prefer to deal with any store, company, or business that did not guarantee their products, services and/or customer satisfaction?
I further ask, why should a client have to pay for incompetence, or the SEO’s inability to deliver rankings?
A performance-based guarantee — as far as SEO is concerned, is frankly, about positions attained in the search engines. How those positions equate to conversions is dependent upon the site’s design, its incentives, how it engages the potential customer in the trust process and the degree to which the site’s owner handles inquiries, etc.
Of course we all know that we cannot emphatically warrant search engine rankings; the SEO guy cannot give his/her clients absolute assurances that search engines will respond favorably to what he does. However, unless his work does result in the rankings as promised, IMO, the client shouldn’t have to pay for the SEO’s failure to perform.
Without a guarantee in place, without any standards of excellence within the SEO industry, how else can we keep things fair for all parties concerned?
Respectfully,
John Barremore, SEO
I’m saying that the “X top ten rankings guaranteed” bit is 99% of the time a scam – because the companies that offer this point to worthless rankings that drive no traffic or sales as indicators of success.
In other words, this isn’t guaranteeing performance at all. But to the uneducated it may look like performance.
I would disagree that a “performance-based guarantee” and a guarantee for “X number of page one rankings” (as I describe in #1 above) are one in the same. What I’m talking about are those worthless #1 rankings that may look great until you consider demand and traffic for those keywords.
I went into detail on how some “SEO companies” work this “guarantee” here.
Guaranteeing client satisfaction or sharing risk via a performance-based compensation structure are different situations entirely.
Are you suggesting a guarantee is a standard of excellence and that without one things are not “fair for all parties?”
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply.
My central purpose for debate is to define the exemplary SEO model and how to provide my clients with the best possible service and benefit. A solid SEO guarantee is the doorway to trust between company and client; it compels the SEO service to perform its best and protects the client’s interests.
To be sure, I agree with you — 99% of the SEO services out there today are scams, but for reasons that are completely avoidable and fixable. If the service is making claims, IMO, those claims should be backed by a guarantee for the client.
Look at it from the business owner’s perspective. They most often know little or nothing about SEO; they want and need pre-qualified traffic to their sites though and they’re seeking someone who can help them. They don’t know you; only what you tell them. What assurances can you give them that what you say is true?
If the SEO is secure in their ability to provide positions for the client’s most competitive keywords, why not warrant that ability to the client with a guarantee?
Personally, I use beginning keyword benchmarks together with ranking reports to keep the client in the loop; heck they know as much as I do, about where their website is positioned and when it reaches their goals in the SERPs. With a 100% track record of success and a guarantee to back it up, my clients appreciate the fact they won’t have to pay unless we deliver, as promised.
I think you said it all when you mentioned “to the uneducated” — and this is most important. The client must assume the responsibility of researching the subject of SEO, determining their most valuable keywords and finding an SEO who can provide reasonable assurances for a successful campaign.
In the same vein, check out this offer — this is what we’re up against; a ridiculous claim designed to fleece the uninformed dentist: http://www.newpatientinquiries.com/
In summary, I’m not suggesting that an SEO follow my lead, or provide their clients with protective safeguards, or even consider doing the right thing. I only know what is best for me and my clients. I do however enjoy speaking with other SEOs and webmasters and seeking win/win strategies for both clients and ourselves.
After all, if we help our clients, we help ourselves. How exactly we can improve the efficiency of that endeavor is my goal, and I would truly like to hear your input on how to proceed.
John Barremore, SEO
Wow John. I just perused the newpatientinquiries site and you really are up against it. That’s got to be difficult to counter when you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t know anything about it all.
John,
I think the discussion is a little big for the comment thread of this post – we’ve already expanded it quite a bit. If you’d like to discuss it further I’d be happy to exchange a few emails, but in closing here I”ll say the following:
I have no arbitrary problem with the “guarantee” in any business engagement. I’m sure we can find case after case where the effective use of a guarantee has made for profitable businesses and happy clients.
The problem in the SEO space is that the “guarantees” thrown around usually amount to zero in value.
In other words, I can guarantee you 500 page one rankings, but if none of those rankings brings in traffic or business, where’s the value in that guarantee?
This tactic is what I was pointing to in #1 above. Not guarantees across the board, but the “X number of page one rankings” – which says nothing about actual traffic/value.
And that is precisely the kind of offer you’ve linked to – a guarantee for “thousands” of page one rankings. I’d wager very few of those thousands of page one rankings would actually bring in traffic.
In short, the word “guarantee” is empty. It has no intrinsic value. It just sets off the right warm and fuzzy feelings in people.
As for how to proceed – I wrote this post as an initial answer to that question. I think the best thing we can do is be vocal about why these offers are bogus. Websites like SEOBullshit.com are venturing boldly into that arena, and I encourage it.
> goodnewscowboy,
These guys are a dime a dozen; they’re coming out of the woodwork now that the US economy is crashing. Actually they represent no “competition” or benefit to dentists for that matter; still, you are correct; sadly, the uninformed may fall victim to their claims.
—————————————————————
Hi Mike,
Yes I agree we’ve exhausted the topic here on your site; thank you for hosting the comments and giving your time and insight freely.
I’ve worked hard to separate my SEO service from the “other guys” and I constantly look for ways to provide our clients with more value.
In the end, a guarantee is only as good as the man behind it. The business owner looking for an SEO owes it to themselves to exhibit due diligence and research thoroughly the subject of SEO and the outfit they are considering. An informed consumer will always make better decisions.
Thanks again for your courtesy and input.
John Barremore, SEO
Houston, TX
You had me till the Creed comment. Dude!!! I still love that band.
Well written I liked it!
# 8 is my favorite.
Haha, sorry man – I didn’t realize there were still Creed fans out there! No hard feelings.
Couldn’t agree more and I do web design and SEO for a living. Most of my contemporaries are almost as clueless as the public.
My latest super villan is the amateur web designer that uses a CMS to build a “web site” for clients. I see them all the everywhere now. I get new clients every week that have web sites that are invisible to the search engines. With one glance at the source code I can see they were GENERATED (not built) by WordPress, Drupal, PHP Nuke, etc and then passed off as a web site. Many tell me they were charged extra for “SEO” – and I have yet to see any evidence of SEO on a single one.
I was inspired to create an online survey to find out where they are finding these scumbags and what things the buyer didn’t understand that got them there. There are no links to my site nor are any email addresses gathered. If you feel you, or a friend, have been had by a web contractor – take the survey and I will post the results here when enough responses are gathered to show a trend.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7MP2QBL
There’s almost no barrier to entry here – any asshat with a website can start offering “SEO services.” People are right to be skeptical.
I hope I’m not misunderstanding your point, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong whatsoever with using an open source CMS like Drupal or WordPress to build a website. In fact, I do this all the time, and the benefits are multi-fold.
It’s got to be upfront, of course – when I put together a WordPress site for a client, for example, I let them know what I’m using and the price is, naturally, a fraction of what it would take to build something like that from scratch.
Charging extra for “SEO” when doing nothing is plain fraud – and should be treated as such.
Another dilemma you may or may not have encountered is one where the client, once the SEO service positions their site, suddenly decides to take credit for the work and start their own SEO business.
In my own niche (dentistry), I’m beginning to see this happen more and more as clients somehow begin to imagine they can supplement their cash flow by competing for market share in an industry (Web design & SEO) far removed from their own training and profession. Most often these enterprises end in miserable failure.
John Barremore
Houston, TX
I haven’t seen that first-hand myself, but I suppose people end up in the “industry” from all kinds of walks of life.
The trouble is always that the customer doesn’t understand the service. Otherwise these incompetent people wouldn’t be able to toss their hats in and gain any traction.
I’m sure most of them will die in short fashion, which is the only outcome we can hope for (unless, of course, one of these guys actually does his homework and learns the ropes).
The real casualties are the businesses who buy into a worthless service and get burned.
The common scenario accompanying their “visions of grandeur” is to hire, or partner with a Web developer to do the heavy lifting, then use their name, or credibility within their profession (dentistry) to sell their services to colleagues.
Where they most often fail is not thinking it through, or not realizing that for their plan to be successful, it relies upon the proficiency and integrity of the very SEO or developer they partnered with in the first place.
John Barremore
Houston, TX
If a webmaster knows what they’re doing, using Wordpress to create a website with stand alone pages is just as effective as me using Textpad, or for that matter using any other software that builds cross-browser compliant files and valid code.
John Barremore
Houston, TX
No doubt the HTML output from WordPress is no better/worse than HTML you can code by hand.
But where WordPress or another CMS beats out hand-coding is in the ability of non-technical contributors to publish/edit content – and at a far lower cost than paying a developer to build out another page.
I suspect he was referring to the wannabes who throw up their first WP or CMS site with a free template and then act like they are now a “web designer” and “SEO” expert. I inherit these invisible, bloated, poorly thought out websites all the time. I love WP and you can make a top notch website based up it’s back end, but like any tool, it’s only as good as the person using it. Heck, some of the worst designs out there are made with Photoshop, bu that’s not the fault of the program.
Well, there are lots of those wannabes out there. I deal with it all the time myself – cleaning up after crappy coders.
Beyond mark-up, the problem (we see) when a site is enabled by CMS for “other” contributors, is they invariably create content totally irrelevant to the site’s primary topic and thus disassociate it with its parent industry, that is, in the eyes of the search engines.
John Barremore
Houston, TX
Well now you’re talking content strategies – a bit of a can of worms.
I’d argue that creating new content that happens to be “off topic” doesn’t hinder a site’s ability to rank for core keywords – so long as the core of the site (home page and main pages) still contains optimized, on-topic language.
And I’d question whether our role should be the gatekeeper for site content contributions. I much prefer to get my clients into the publishing habit – their voice should be at the heart of their brand.
Just a small PS – The reason I posted here is when I read the original post I felt like I was reading my own words. I have made nearly exact comments on my own web sites.
At Outrank.com we strive to provide a quality service to every client. If any past clients feels that we failed to deliver the service that was offered to them, please contact me personally. I will review your specific case and make the needed adjustments to reach an amicable resolution.
Respectfully,
Justin LeBlanc
Sr. Account Mgr. / Product Specialist
Outrank.com
877-332-4321 ext. 3041
jleblanc@outrank.com
Great post, I always find it amazing when I see SEO companies charging $100′s to submit to search engines and it is still quite common. I also love SEO companies that don’t rank for anything or the title of their home page is…well….”home page”!!!
I wrote a Knol on this topic a few months ago as well http://knol.google.com/k/jay-granofsky/seo-lies-and-myths-revealed/3udnymr0y2e8g/11
thanks
J
It seems to me that many of the posters in response to this article at least claim to be SEO experts. Having said that, I think I am exactly the type of business person that is being talked about here. I have a new business, no particular understanding as to how or what an SEO does to accomplish the desired goal, which as you stated is to get actual business.
My uneducated response to what many have said is that I don’t know how an SEO is supposed to be held to the standard to a certain level of business that is derived from their efforts. Don’t get me wrong, I want the ability to be able to cancel (not pay them any longer) the service if that goal is not reached. However, from my perspective, again uneducated, do I have any chance of reaching the goal of more business if my web site is on page 10 through any search? I don’t think so. So, isn’t it the goal of any SEO to get the web site to show up as close to the top of any search engine as is possible and then it is up to the business to make the sale? Now we could argue key words, design of web site and so forth to help accomplish that, but ultimately, again, isn’t it the goal of the SEO to have the web site appear as close to first as possible? If not, how will the ultimate goal of more business be accomplished?
Now let me throw out my situation, which I don’t think is unique, and see what solution you recommend. As I mentioned, I am starting a new business, a cleaning service company. I think, when my site is up and running, that I need it to show near the top of most search’s so people will see me and then request my service. I am not rich, have limited resources, so I can’t spend thousands of dollars for an SEO. Who can help me and how can I be helped?
I will say, that although I have not signed up with outrank, there are some things that attract me, but also some negatives that make the decision hard for me, the uneducated.
First, the positives. They claim to be able to get my web site on the first page of an internet search on the major search engines. They seem to be reasonably priced, and I know, how reasonable if they can’t perform. There is no term to their contract, so if I don’t like the results I cancel the service and don’t owe them anything else.
Now the negatives. I think they are pretty narrow in their keyword possibilities. I specialize in floor cleaning. As of now I would be listed only in the cleaning services vertical. So, if for example someone searches for tile and grout cleaning I will not show up. I am supposed to trust them that “in their research” they have found that most people search for “cleaning services” when in fact they want someone to clean their tile and grout. Also, I have seen the complaints that it is hard to get them to stop charging your credit card when you want to cancel their service.
I hope this post is not too long, but the bottom line is simple. I am who you are talking about. It seems that there are a lot of comments about the scammers but that just makes me more unsure, when there are not step by step things to look for, when a limited budget is in play. Can someone help?
Mike,
I think you are like many small business owners when it comes to SEO, uneducated. I do not say that with any disrespect. I feel it is the responsibility of the sales person to proper educate our potential client on what we (Outrank.com) do for our clients and setting the proper expectations. Due to the volume of clients we have (upward range of about 5,000), there are times when people still do not fully understand SEO. Whether that is because of a miscommunication, lack of communication, lack of understanding, assumptions, or what not, the fact of the matter is people sometimes fail to understand regardless of how well it is explained to them. As a result, you have people that complain.
Let me preface this by saying that we do all we can to get our client in the position they want, but due to complexity of ranking a website in the search engines, we do not always succeed. I can confidently say that 95% of the time we do succeed. Just as we have made clear to you what we will rank you for, we provide that same level of explanation to all of our clients.
In regards to your specific situation, we do classify most industry into “categories.” You specific type of service falls within a “category,” which is “cleaning services” and we also have “carpet cleaning” as an option for you. Although we focus getting you ranked for that primary phrase and its permutations, we also attempt to rank you for a variety of other relevant terms, including “tile & grout cleaning” if that is what you want. We will guarantee to rank you for your category term, but we can’t always guarantee you will rank for its related terms. Please understand that we do have a high success rate of ranking our clients for many things other than their category term and I will be more than willing to show you numerous examples if need be. One of the reasons we are so affordable and we are so confident is due to the business model we have created. We have created a system that can pump out ranked websites very quickly, but you kind of have to fit the mold. Most businesses fit the mold perfectly, (ie: plumber, electrician, carpet cleaners, roofers, dentists, massage therapists, tree services, etc.), but then you have those businesses, such as yours, that are a little more specialized in what they do. In those cases we certainly want to rank you for what is important to you, just understand that their is a little more risk involved for you.
We do stick to our written guarantee, if you are not ranked for your category term, which is usually the most popular keyword for your industry, in 60 days or less, we will discontinue the billing and continue to work for free until you are. There is not a long-term contract, only a month-to-month agreement. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me directly.
Thanks,
Justin LeBlanc
Outrank.com
jleblanc@outrank.com
Here’s my 2¢.
Is it a good goal to get business. Yes.
Is it a good goal to get to the top of the SERP’s? Yes.
Is it something that anyone can guarantee? No.
Is there more involved than that? Yes.
I’ll try to do this in a paragraph…or 2.
Being a service business that operates locally, you have an excellent chance at ranking in the top of the SERP’s within the Google 7-pack (That list of local businesses). In addition to that you can rank in the main SERP’s themselves for a variety of keywords, but it will depend upon the competition for those keywords. That’s something a good SEO can help you sort out. What keywords would make sense for your business, and which of those that would be easiest to target.
The net result of having a website should be at the very best getting you business, at the very least to getting you leads. It should leave the visitor with the impression that you are indeed a good company to deal with and the site should anticipate and answer any questions the prospect might have. In short, it should be able to convert the prospects. That’s why I said there is more than SEO involved.
I’m sure Mike will weigh in here later. He’s a much better go to guy than I.
Actually, I can’t put it much better myself, so what he said ^
With regard to Outrank, I have previously spoke of my bad experience with them. That being said my complaint is pretty straightforward,
I had a terrible experience with this company and would not recommend it to anyone. You can get this service for much, much less.
@David Johnston,
It is regrettable that you have a negative view of Outrank. You are an insurance agent in San Antonio, TX. Insurance is a very competitive industry, especially in a very large market such as San Antonio. Due to those factors, the cost to you for that particular category was $295 per month. You elected to pay the first 2 months upfront ($590), which took care of the first 60 days while we were working to get you ranked. After the first 60 days, billing continues at $295 per month only if you are ranked 1st page. If not, then we will work for free until you are ranked 1st page.
You signed up for the service on Oct 2, 2009. Since it takes us about 60 days to get you ranked on the 1st page, it would be wise to not have expectations of getting business during that 60 day period. You sent a cancel request in on November 30, 2009, just shy of the 60 day mark and 2 days shy of your next scheduled billing. The analogy I would like to offer is this: “It takes us about 60 days to build the ship; the next 30 to 60 days is when you should let it sail.” It seems that the later did not happen due to when you cancelled. Please understand Mr. Johnston, all we can do is rank you in the search engines, it is up to the ‘searchers’ to actually do the clicking and calling.
You are right, we do require a 30 day cancellation notice and that is clearly explained to all of clients upon signing up and again just days after during the confirmation call with your Account Manager. You certainly have the option of not signing up for the service if you do not agree with these terms. You requested to cancel 2 days before you next billing date, so that is why you were billing for the 3rd month. More importantly, what justified that charge was the fact that we were successful in ranking you on the 1st page of Google, which according to the correspondence on record, you were made aware of your placement, but proceeded with your cancellation request anyway. So we cancelled it at the end of the next billing cycle, 12/30/2009 as requested and in accordance with the Terms & Conditions.
In regards to your account manager’s attitude, I wish I could speak more to that; unfortunately I’m not that person. He may need some coaching on improving his customer service.
In regards to performance, we were able to get you ranked in the quoted 60 day time frame, but due to your cancellation request, it seems that the site was not given sufficient time to work for you. We do not report hits, clicks, and/or page views, etc. Although that information is available to us, who opt not to provide it. We feel we should be measured on out ability to rank you in the search engines, not the volume of clicks or hits you get on the website. Due to the volume of request for that information, we are working to provide that information in a ‘readable’ format in the near future.
We have no control over what people click on, how many searches are being done in a month, or any other action other than the placement we achieve on your behalf. Therefore, we focus on communicating your position in the search engines. We do, however, assign a unique phone number to your account that appears on all of the listings we create that rolls to your existing phone line. Of course you answer the phone like normal, this just gives us the ability to track the volume of actual phone calls you are getting as a result of the service. We feel this is a much better metric to report on. Clicks and hits are sometimes hard to translate into actual business received. Due to the fact that you cancelled your service within the 1st 60 days, there were not very many calls to report to you. This is a report that we provide upon request that will show: the date, time, call length, caller name, caller location, published number, destination number, and a recording of each call.
Again, in regards to the contract, there is not a long-term contract, rather it is a month-to-month contract. As with many services, there are terms and conditions that both parties agree to. We make very clear to each of our clients that a 30 day written cancellation notice is required, which can be received via email, fax, or post office mail. However, we do use discretion when enforcing it; if a client calls no later than a week after the bill date, we will waive the 30 day notice requirement and cancel the account before the next billing date. You were only 2 days away from your next billing date, therefore that was not an option for your situation.
I wish I could offer a better explanation should this one be unacceptable to you or anyone. With any advertisment, there is an inherant risk that you might not get out of it what you put in it. We strive to provide a great service and it is open discussion forums like this that help us improve our service and offerings. Please know that we will heed your comments in effort to improve our service. Thanks for the opportunity.
Kindest Regards,
Justin LeBlanc
Outrank.com
jleblanc@outrank.com
@ Justin from Outrank:
Thanks for the lengthy and wordy response. As I stated previously, my main problem with your “service” is the price. You are right, buyer beware and understand what you are getting in to because companies like Outrank will take you to the cleaners if you let them. Two other points;
1. The phone number you create and publish creates confusion for business customers and our employees as this is really not our phone number. It might make things easier for you, and, well, that seems to be Outranks position what’s easy for them.
2. You certainly were able to due your due dillegance on me but interesting how you can’t figure out your own employee.
No reposnse is necessary.
Regards,
David Johnston
@ David Johnston,
I know a response is not neccessary, but the point of a dicussion forum is to discuss, so I feel it is my responsibility to respond.
We feel that our price points are very competitive, especially with consideration to what we are providing in such a short time. I don’t think we are taking anyone to the cleaners. We have no other charges other than the monthly fee itself. That’s it. This is an all-incluvise program. No hidden fees, just a simple monthly fee that never fluctuates. I feel your comment to this particular topic is motivated by your distaste of the 30 day cancellation notice requirement. All of this is disclosed to each and every client upon signing for the service. No tricks, no gimmicks, pretty straightforward.
The phone number can be disabled if the client does not want to use it. Most clients really like the fact that we can measure the effectiveness of this program by associating the volume of calls received to the ranking of the site. When a potential new customers is doing a search and they find you, they know no difference between the number on the screen and your actual number; all that is important to them is that when they call, you answer. This practice is very common and allows for greater transparency in measuring the effectiveness of any advertising campaign.
In regards to your account manager’s attitude, I will say that we hold each of our associates to a high standard and take the feedback very seriously, and as previously stated, he may need additional coaching on improving his customer service.
Thanks again for the opportunity.
Respectfully,
Justin LeBlanc
Outrank.com
jleblanc@outrank.com
#9 Always be wary of missplaced arrogance.
That comment above was, of course, for the seo guru person. (Did I really have to ‘splain that one:)
Haha SEO Guru, reading your comment was like reading a poem… I was a bit confused with what you were saying, but I liked the rhythm.
yes, i agree, many seo company are scams, making website on top search engine is not easy as what their mention, 1st page on google search in 48 hours? that’s must be a jokes…its take a lot of times to make your site in good ranking, if anyone like to promote a website, try to consider AdWords or some ppc programs.